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Post by merali on Sept 10, 2008 18:32:39 GMT -5
Was there treatment, drugs for people with depression on Pern? Or did they go to a place like an asylum after seeing/talking with a mindhealer if talking held no results for recovery?
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Post by Hope on Sept 11, 2008 20:58:30 GMT -5
Great question! Treatments for depression have gone back thousands of years, few of them successful. Bleeding is rarely helpful! There are almost certainly herbs that have an effect, and talking aka counselling is as effective as meds in people with mild to moderate depression. A recent Russian study found that caning people is as effective as medication! (I can just see how that study came about. "We must publish, or we will not get tenure!" "But we have no funding. What can we do?" "Oooh, oooh! I like to hit people!")  Other studies have shown regular physical exertion to be effective. Whether individual healers on Pern have tried these things so far is up to our panel of experts. (Oh, experts?) If not, they certainly can be tried in the future. Asylums...I hope not. They were terrible places, and still are in many parts of the world. I could see a "Rest Cure" to a beach in Southern, though.... |
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Post by Anna on Sept 11, 2008 22:40:57 GMT -5
Fortunately, the Pernese are not starting off with absolutely no medical history. The Healer Hall was among the very first established, and as technology was lost, the important things would have been preserved. Mental health care, I'm sure, would have been a major interest, considering the problems that the colonist would have been facing. Thread would have been a major trauma; the loss of darn near everything another trauma, and the visible and rapid loss of nearly all technology, completely disrupting life as they knew it... Well, I'm sure a lot of the colonists would have suffered from depression, at the very least! Advanced medications not being available, I'm sure those early healers identified native alternatives as best they could, and established practices on how to identify the various mental conditions and the best ways to handle them - without resorting to asylums. I agree with Hope - I don't like asylums. I think each hold would have a special place for the more dangerous of the mentally ill, but that would be for extreme cases. However! I am not any kind of medical expert. This question I'll leave for our resident medical experts to make a final call on.  |
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Post by merali on Sept 11, 2008 22:56:18 GMT -5
Hmm... I think I remember in Anne's books that some (the really whacked out jobs that couldnt be salvaged) were sent into exile on some island? Dont know for sure... been too long.
These are some very interesting replies.
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Post by Anna on Sept 12, 2008 0:04:47 GMT -5
Those would have been criminals that were exiled. Not the mentally ill. |
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Post by Hope on Sept 12, 2008 20:52:54 GMT -5
Barring disagreement from others, I'd suggest we assume that Pern has some herbal remedies, counselling, and probably an endorphin-evoking treatment like coining or the like. Probably not caning--though that concept gives new meaning to the joke "Beatings will continue until morale improves"!
Any other thoughts?
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Post by Anna on Sept 12, 2008 21:55:40 GMT -5
I bow to the training and experience of the actual doctors among us. What's coining? |
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Post by Hope on Sept 13, 2008 16:38:39 GMT -5
Coining is similar in concept to accupuncture, but less sophisticated. It is a Vietnamese practice. Metal coins are heated, then placed on the body and rubbed until a red, welt-like mark that is not quite a bruise develops. It actually does no harm, feels pretty good, and may be effective...or may just have an excellent placebo effect. There was a question about it in my boards some years back...because if an ill child comes in to the ER with these marks on their body, and you aren't aware of this cultural practice, you're likely to call child protective services.  Other cultures use hot stone massage, steam baths, accupressure...lots of great non-traditional treatments out there. |
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Post by Andrea on Sept 17, 2008 16:24:06 GMT -5
Well, considering the wide variety of herbs and drugs we acknowledge I'd imagine the "natural" treatment of mental illnes on Pern would be pretty extensive along with talk therapy. I mean, I doubt they'd be able to cure something like schizophrenia with say... Pern-style haldol (whatever that may be). I disagree with a big asylum somewhere. But I imagine that some large holds would have some family secrets (uncle nestor just ain;t right so he lives in the back basement and we feed him through a slot in the door... kinda thing) as unfortunate as that would be. And I'm sure some of the more violent offendors (sociopaths, severe biopolar and borderline personalities) would cause a rise in the crime rates in those areas. And there are holdless that live... wherever. Self treating with drugs and alcohol. It's an interesting side of fandom to think about. I have a mindhealer at telgar (Randrin) who was always interested in addiction, likely due to its ties to mental illness of this type. Funny how he's also a Bitran cardplayer. Well, guess it takes a bit of crazy to know one, right? |
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Post by Chantal on Oct 14, 2008 21:21:30 GMT -5
I agree with counseling for mild to even moderate depression and some other conditions. Definitely, no asylums. Pern seems to be founded heavily on the idea of family and of relatives sticking together, so I think the Pernese in general would be inclined to keep mentally ill relatives at home unless there was absolutely no other choice.
I'm not convinced that the Pernese would have many drugs which would be noticeably effective against mental illness--certainly no miracle treatments. They might, though, be able to get some herbal compounds into concentrated enough doses to help.
What's interesting to me is that their knowledge is greater than their technology, so in some cases, they will know a cure is possible but be unable to treat it effectively with what they have on hand. That would have to be frustrating, to say the least.
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Post by Hope on Oct 14, 2008 21:34:18 GMT -5
Hmm...they had genetic engineering for the first generation. They could easily have altered a few native plants to their needs...probably an immune system booster, maybe natural antibiotics. Now, as carefully as they screened, there is no predicting postpartum depression, and the genes for creativity run so closely to those for mental illness that you couldn't breed out the latter without losing the former. So I'd bet they'd have one good plant antidepressant and one good anti-manic/anti-psychotic. Now...did they remember, with all that they lost? Anyone who doesn't believe drugs work on mental illness should see an acutely manic person go on Zyprexa. I had one lovely patient who hadn't slept in weeks, couldn't sit still, talking a mile a minute. 48 hours later he was calm, coherent, working, and interacting appropriately with his family. That's not to say that counseling isn't important, just that the neuro-biologic basis of mental illness is a considerable component! |
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Post by Chantal on Oct 20, 2008 20:24:38 GMT -5
Oh, I know the drugs work. I have a friend who has borderline personality disorder and mild psychosis. The right drugs have done wonders for her. She's a bit OCD, but that's better than zombie.
Chantal
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Post by katah on Feb 22, 2009 2:58:42 GMT -5
I wrote a long reply and timed out. I'm almost done with my behavioral science degree and anyone I've ever worked with would check out a lot of things before heading out to "cure", if that word would ever be used. We'd check the environment, the history of life events, allergies, have a physical, check genetic history...then we'd look at symptoms, from both the client and the client's family.
Of course, as you've all stated, there are those cases of actual brain damage (either physical from birth or accident, or chemical) and/or cases of those with such complicated issues that solving them is next to impossible.
I'm reminded of the show on TV called Most Evil. Its a show where they analyze some of the most "Evil" and rate them in relation to the crimes they've committed and they also do a series of brain scans on documented folks to establish how different their brains are wired.
So, for instance, the BTK Killer killed in his own neighborhood for over a long period of time. Considered one of the worst. Rated that way because he was able to remain undetected for such a long time, never strayed far from his own area, was an active church going member and married. His wife never new and never went into the basement (clearly, I was not the wife as I know all corners of my house). Anyway, he was fabuluous in what he did and horrific all at the same time.
Okay. I'm done for now. Cheers!
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Post by JustPlainKitty on Feb 22, 2009 12:36:00 GMT -5
Considering the level of technology, and the fact that so much has been lost, then you consider the other discussion going on about Extraordinary Measures one could easily imagine that some of the most severe simply disappear or for those that commit severe crimes it is likely they aren't seen as mentally ill but as criminals and are executed for their crimes. Certainly we know that Ted Bundy was not right in the head for some reason or another, but I truly can't see on Pern him surviving more than a fortnight after he was discovered. Even if they decided to put him on "trial" in some fashion, somebody would have found a way to do him in. More of a preventative measure than a punishment I would think. We do know though that some of the milder mentally ill are kept with their family, sometimes as drudges if they can be handled correctly. Camo is a good example of this. I remember reading somewhere that he was the child of Silvina and Robinton and he is why Robinton decided not to father anymore children. Kylara went mad after the death of Pridith and passing mention is made of her living in a state that she couldn't take care of herself. Presumably she would have been returned to her home hold into the care of her family because her part in the death of the queens would have been seen by many people in the Weyrs as a most grievous crime and her safety might be at issue. Wouldn't be hard to slip something nasty into her drink or food. Just some more food for the discussion. |
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Post by katah on Feb 22, 2009 17:06:15 GMT -5
I do think that there would be a level of "taking care of our own" that would simply have to go on. It isn't has if the cost for supporting those with various levels of need could be assumed by some faction. Having things generally stay on home territory would cause the cost of maintenance to be spread out and more easily assumable.
I also think capital punishment was used on Pern and they really wouldn't have a reason to not do it for sake of brevity and protection of one's own.
Still, it would be hard to solve crimes, real crimes. Bundy, clearly mentally different then the rest of the world, however, it was also a real charmer, tall, good looking, intellegent, and, well, nice. So, someone like him could probably be over looked for quite a while for lack of anyone believing it could be him and also lacking forensic science to find what can't be seen.
I do agree, though, that all kinds of mental health issues would probably just not be treated and that if someone was uncontrollable that control would probably be the typical behaviorial response. Retrain, drug, close-away from society.
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