Erica
Dragonrider
Posts: 186
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Post by Erica on Jan 29, 2009 11:26:59 GMT -5
Yes, it's me again, back with more questions!
What kind of diseases/illnesses do they have on Pern?
Specifically I'm thinking things like: Chicken Pox, Measles, Mumps, Rubella? Mono? Tb? Malaria? Cholera? Or anything else? Also, I thought I'd seen it referred to somewhere--but is cancer in its various forms also present?
(I'm afraid off the top of my head from reading done years ago I recall the plague that Moreta & co. dealt with--what was that? And er, firehead fever or something that Jaxom contracted on the southern continent?)
Do they have STDs? If so, do the weyrs/holds/halls have methods of diagnosing & treating them?
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Post by Anna on Jan 29, 2009 13:19:02 GMT -5
The plague of Moreta's time was a type of influenza, I think.
And yes, there's firehead fever, mostly only found on the Southern Continent.
Cancers and whatnot were wiped out prior to colonization...but whether that 'wiping' was eternal or just a product of the time/technology, I don't know.
Even if our commonly knowns ills today were all cured, new ones are always developing. Mutation is a constant process, so the remedies of today may be completely ineffective not to long from now.
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Post by Chantal on Feb 10, 2009 21:13:36 GMT -5
Let's see... Moreta's plague was viral influenza. Along with firehead fever, they also have joint ail (arthritis) and cataracts. They also have either myopia or astigmatism (Wansor), as well as heart disease (Robinton). I'm guessing Harpers also get vocal nodes, and some crafters are probably prone to carpal tunnel syndrome. Whether they have maleria depends on whether Earth mosquitoes exist on Pern. I'm thinking dysentery is possible in the poorer, more crowded holds. I don't remember hearing much about STD's in the Pern books, though it wouldn't surprise me if some of the characters had them. Hearing loss, I'd think. Stroke. I think they would likely not have diabetes and its attendant conditions very much. You'd have more type 1 diabetes than type 2. People would probably still get appendicitis, gallstones, kidney stones, various infections, as well as trauma related to falls or blunt-force trauma, workshop accidents, pranks. I'd be interested to speculate how many of the illnesses from House, MD could conceivably arise on Pern. *snicker*
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Post by Chantal on Feb 11, 2009 8:28:08 GMT -5
One thing I would like to do is write a story about a patient with a disease that Pern hasn't the ability to really treat, such as Graves' disease. A healer can tell what it is, because it has extremely noticeable symptoms, but there would be no real treatment (that I'm aware of?).
I'd think that would be a source of great frustration to a healer, to know what the disease is and maybe even its etiology, but to have no way of treating it.
Would autoimmune hyperthyroidism be a viable candidate for such a story? Can you sugggest other likely diseases that the Ancients would have left records of? MS, maybe?
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Post by katah on Feb 17, 2009 20:03:21 GMT -5
MS is probably a good candidate...also IBS. MD.
Course, I'd wonder if we irradicated something as terrible, difficult and all encompassing as Cancer then some of the other things might be on a similiar list of irradications.
TB and basic (and not so basic) infections used to be really big killers.
My grandfather, even with fairly modern medicine, died in a hospital after a removal of one of his legs. He ended up with gang green (how ever that is spelled).
The cool thing about infections (did I say cool?) is that they can be real buggers to defeat and can spread, become toxic, systemic.
Also, if I remember correctly, a much larger number of people used to die from shock than they do now, with all of our great meds to knock them out and keep them under.
I'd say that anything can be warpped for satisfaction.
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Post by Chantal on Feb 17, 2009 21:57:21 GMT -5
I'd say TB and pneumonia would certainly be problem diseases, and yes, infections can be big killers. A UTI can kill you if left untreated for long enough, and a tooth abscess can kill you rather quickly if it bursts internally.
One thing I would like to introduce is the use of maggots for infection control and wound debridement. They are really good at cleaning out a wond and keeping it cleaning, but they are gross to look at.
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Post by katah on Feb 18, 2009 22:04:45 GMT -5
I go to a wound center every week and have two nurses visit every week. Yeah me. Emergency surgery in Dec left me with a new stomach and intesten construction. From there, even in today's day and age, I got a nasty infection. I had a high fever that wouldn't break, low blood pressure. The doc finally decided it had to be the wound itself...which is/was from my belly button to my sturnum. They opened up the bottom are of my wound and the amount of substance that exploded was so very amazing...everywhere....on the doc, the bed, me, the floor. They cleaned it out and for this very clear moment there were five people in lab coast leaning over my bed and my impressive and open wound that was now three inches wide and two and half deep. The doc slowly lifted his head and looked at everyone looking at me and stood up and said...you know...we shouldn't be breathing into this. Everyone stepped back.
It was my own HOUSE moment. My doc is funnier than House, though, but has that side of him that is definitely of the mind to FIX things and let others do the nice stuff.
I asked him and the attending wound specialist about maggots and they had a lively discussion about them...I'm no expert, of course. But they agreed how great they were for areas not on the torso.
With a wound like I had, ways and means for healing even ten years ago...or less...would have been a wet-to dry type packing that would have needed to be changed daily if not more often depending on fluid build up. Now...with this handy little wound-vac that I carry everywhere with me, what might have taken six or nine months to heal, if no new infection occurred, is healing in a couple of months.
I was on three different antibiotics to fight the strain of infection that claimed me. This had its own side effects. I was on pretty serious pain releavers for a long period of time, with ITS own side effects.
Still, I didn't rebound to my House's pleasure. I remained weak and tired and loosing weight. I've lost 40 pounds since the start of this trial.
With tests galore, more CT scans and such, he's come to the conclusion, suprise...suprise...that my vitamins were lacking...particularly my iron and Vitamin D. We keep doing more tests and I'm still not quite caught up.
Now, that leaves me to ask, whether here or not is the right place, what kind of tests are really available? It would be nice to throw our heads together and create some kind of guide.
Somewhere on here it mentions a microscope and how we'd have them. The history of them does seem to agree that we could have them...particularly since we know they came with the ancients. Still, how good would they be? What CAN we see versus not...
I'm not a doc...that's for sure. But with our germ looking don't we have bacteria and virusus and aren't most virusus a lot harder to even see, let alone diagnose?
Also, don't different microscope types work differently? For instance, would we have the ability to use different spectrums of light, as is the norm for one of the main types of microscopes?
Also, if we are going to accept microscopes, then what other things would only be natural? Telescopes? What uses for glass?
I know that glass making and its uses is a really, really old science and I watched a special not that long ago where this guy was trying to mimic and/or discover how one of our long, gone and ancient cultures, use to create these amazing pieces of art that included this lace-type glass design that was colored and fabulous. It was laced on the outside of a solid face of glass. This guy was trying to discover how they did it...including recreating the tools of the time, the dyes (that he could replicate), and such.
Anyway, that's perhaps neither here nor there. The point of needing to decide the use of glass and microscope would be really useful...if you haven't decided it all ready.
Do we have mirrors? Inquiring minds must know.
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Post by Hope on Feb 18, 2009 22:48:14 GMT -5
Yes, Pern has mirrors, glass (although whether glass or metal is cheaper for mirrors would be debatable at this tech level), telescopes, rare eyeglasses, and telescopes (distance viewers). So, yes, they'd have primitive microscopes. Now, let me tell you what I can see under my microscope at work: cells, hyphae (from yeast), and ferning (to prove the presence of amniotic fluid). If we had cultures in the office, I could certainly tell that something was growing...but <what> would be a lot harder. We need a pathologist to discuss what's possible, and I don't believe we have one.
Viruses cannot be seen except with extreme technology. The vast majority of diagnoses would have to be clinical, whatever tech tricks we decide on. Modern day now, probably 90% of diagnoses are clinical, whether tests are ordered or not.
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Post by edleo on Apr 11, 2009 17:33:37 GMT -5
Sorry if I am intruding, but what about the likes of stomach ulcers, and other gastrointestinal complaints, with the large supplies of alcohol on pern could it be a possibilty? as well as rich foods, there was also the mention of tumorous like growths, that was mentioned in the Dolphins of Pern (I only mention this as it is still fresh in my mind from reading the book fortnight ago), they used the dolphins sonar abilities to detect, well only a thought I hope it can help!
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Post by Anna on Apr 13, 2009 18:04:20 GMT -5
Oh, I'd guess that stomach ulcers are a definite problem! With my limited medical understanding, stress can cause - or is the leading cause of - stomach ulcers. I think there's plenty of stress on Pern to cause more than a few ulcers.
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Post by Chantal on Apr 13, 2009 21:34:46 GMT -5
There's also a bacterium that causes them.
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Post by edleo on Apr 19, 2009 17:33:28 GMT -5
I know that they are aware of cancerous growths, and there is also a wasting disease that they cannot treat but can only make the patient comfortable, and then blindness is also mentioned, so could that be cataracts, and there was also the mention of musculoskeletal conditions, birth defects, all though they are rare, there is enough known that the healer hall is aware of such conditions. Also hemorrhaging, post labour is mentioned, and also umbilical cord rapped around babies neck, causing O2 deprivation, leading to CP, and I was wondering about the possibility of dentistry, how would that factor in to healer training, are there any genetic disorders, more likely those that spring up every few generations, actually there is a condition that was mentioned regarding blindness, and they knew that there was the possibility that the females of the family could be born blind, so it would have to be a random faulty gene I suppose.
Would there be any childhood illnesses, those which infants and babies are immunized against or would they have been eradicated before the colonists arrived on pern. So full of questions, I'm like a kid at Christmas!!
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Post by Hope on Apr 19, 2009 19:12:54 GMT -5
Wow...so many great questions that I don't know where to start! There are diseases unique to Pern, and cancer, because it is the result of spontaneous mutations most of the time, is still a factor; less common than on Earth, because the life expectancy is much lower, unless you're a non-rider at a Weyr or rich. (Eradicating cancer in the genetics of a whole generation would buy you, at most, 2 generations without cancer; most of it is not heredity!) Most cancer would be called a wasting disease, there, and so would neurologic disorders like MS and Muscular Dystrophy; we just don't have enough technology to differentiate between different progressive illnesses that we can't treat. Genetic deafness has been established in Falkenstone Hold--you can ask Chantal about that--and other genetic diseases are likely to have cropped up again over the millenia. (Actually, it's quite reasonable that new conditions have occurred over that period of time!) There's also ABO incompatability, which has been established to exist but with no clear understanding of what it is or how to treat or prevent it. (A woman who has babies with Man A will have one live birth, then all stillbirths; but if she has babies with Man B, they all live.) Marfan's has a very high spontaneous mutation rate, particularly with older fathers. Down's children would have short life expectancies on Pern, even the healthier ones. Rheumatologic diseases are known, predominantly the erosive arthritis diseases like Rheumatoid arthritis. Heart problems, like heart attacks and congestive heart failure, are vaguely understood. (The society doesn't put a lot of resources into disease states that only impact the elderly...it's just not cost effective.) While TB would have had to be brought, there's likely a replacement respiratory "wasting disease" that may even be called consumption. CF or type 1 diabetes would be fatal in childhood...and we could go on and on.
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Post by edleo on Apr 21, 2009 20:42:56 GMT -5
Well seeing as though MD, is a likely candidate for genetic diseases then is It more likely SMA type 1 is a canidate as well, I mean it supports the wasting disease to the letter, but maybe SMARD would be more likely though as it is a shorter life expectancy, being that it is has a high infantile mortality rate, and it would also account for the lack of information around the disease. The genetic deafness sounds interesting though, I actually suffer mildy from deafness myself, and fuuny enough it is actually quite widespread in my familly, all of my sibllings have some varying degree of deafness, from mild to moderate, some have hearing and radio aid's so I actually, would be very interested to see how it is addressed, communication wise and how the teaching ballads would be utilsed, I know that vibrations could actually differentiate between each different ballad, but it would be really interesting to see how the harpers do address the problem, and whether or not they devised a unique teaching method seeing as though it is a rare occurance
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Post by Hope on Apr 22, 2009 7:02:24 GMT -5
Blue--I suspect SMA has a different name or abbreviation in US, as I don't recognize it. (Or it could just be a "Mother Moment"!) What does it stand for?
Chantal's hold is based on Martha's Vineyard, in Massachusetts, USA; before modern transportation, they had a large genetic-based deaf population, and the society adapted. Chantal could tell you more.
Has your family been evaluated? Otosclerosis is the most common familial cause of gradual hearing loss, and is treatable with surgery. (And I suspect Trini may know a little more than I about that sort of thing.)
As a general rule, the more benign a condition (in terms of living long enough to reproduce), the more often spontaneous mutations occur. So Marfan's (most live to near normal life expectancy) occurs commonly. (Are people interested in getting into the genetics of all this, with recessive versus dominant, somatic versus x-linked, etc? Six fingers (another condition common in Chantal's home) is dominant, meaning you only have to inherit it from one parent. )
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